Your Top 10 Best Science Fiction Shows!

Eugene

We've just posted part 1 of a 2-part podcast where we dicsuss Newsarama's top science fiction shows of all time.

Their list looks something like this:

Doctor Who
Star Trek
Battlestar Galactica (reboot)
The Twilight Zone/The Outer Limits
Lost
The Prisoner
The X-Files
Farscape
Firefly
Quantum Leap

Ben and I don't necessarily agree with that list. Listen to the first podcast to learn which ones we agree should be on the list and which ones shouldn't be on that list. Of course, we gave our reasons why.

In part 2, we'll reveal what we'd change about that list, and I'll post our lists here at that time. In the meantime, tell us about your top 10.

robert_hubbard

LOST should definitely not be on that list... or at least in the Top 10. It took several seasons (3 or 4) just for LOST to finally align itself within genre terms.

QUANTUM LEAP, I'd toss out of the top 10

My own 10 (not in ranking order):

THE TWILIGHT ZONE
THE OUTER LIMITS
DOCTOR WHO
OUT OF THE UNKNOWN
STAR TREK
THE PRISONER
UFO
SAPPHIRE AND STEEL
STAR TREK DEEP SPACE 9
BABYLON 5

OUT OF THE UNKNOWN won't be known to most American viewers, but it's probably the best science-fiction anthology show made by ANYONE.

DEEP SPACE 9 - probably the most successful STAR TREK spinoff, artistically - it did forge its own identity instead of just relying on recyling the original series' format with alterations.

BABYLON 5 - the first successful serial novel sci-fi television series. Some might argue that BLAKE'S 7 would qualify... I haven't seen it yet.

Eugene

I knew this was going to happen. I don't want to tip my hand until part 2 is released, but I will say I "cheated" and had a 3-way tie for one of the slots. Of those three, Sapphire & Steel was one of them; however, I removed it just as we went to record. It was bad enough that I went for the 2-way tie.

The reason I removed S&S was that, as noted during the podcast, brilliant though the idea and cast were, the show only had a few stories and was already getting a bit repetitive.

I'm somewhat familiar with Out of the Unknown, but have only seen 1 or 2 episodes several years ago. It's very hard to judge an anthology by only 1 or 2 samples. I'm confident of Twilight Zone & Outer Limits because I've seen all episodes and can judge "an average" quality of the whole.

Of course, the whole thing is totally subjective based on what one has seen.

Eugene

As promised, here it is... Our lists for the 10 best SciFi shows of all time.

Position	Ben	Eugene
10	Go Sei Sentai Dairanger	Wild, Wild West/Space: 1999 (Series 1)
9	Lost	X-Files
8	Battlestar Galactica (Reboot)	The Prisoner
7	UFO	Outer Limits
6	X-Files	Twilight Zone
5	Babylon 5	The Avengers
4	Blakes 7	Babylon 5
3	Outer Limits	Blakes 7
2	Star Trek	Star Trek
1	Doctor Who	Doctor Who

robert_hubbard

One observation about the current fad for long story-arcs... in American television, you usually only encountered them in soap operas. THE FUGITIVE would be an exception, of course, but in terms of contemporary TV, that fad was kickstarted by TWIN PEAKS - other shows that followed, like X-FILES, LOST, and imitators all took away the wrong lessons, but put them to better use.... but what no one seemed to learn is that you have to have some sort of plan in doing long-arcs - X-FILES didn't, which ultimately sank the show, but the contempt that the producers had for the audience certainly carried over - Chris Carter & Co. usually hit the 'Reset' button when it came to continuity, but LOST's producers took it to new heights by basically saying that none of it really mattered anyway.

"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me," as the saying goes.

The only successful American SF show with long arcs is BABYLON 5, and even that hedged its bets by paying off things in Season Four. Sadly, it hasn't inspired any successors.

Eugene

Reply to @robert_hubbard:

I was going to defend Babylon 5 and say that they forced things into season 4 because they were effectively cancelled due to the implosion of the PTEN; however, in re-reading your comment, I guess one could say they were hedging their bets against the likely termination of series coinciding with the destruction of PTEN.

So... in this comment, I'm actually saying nothing.

Nothing new there.

MrSimonWood

Enjoyed the first episode of this: you've convinced me to watch Firefly! I think you have nailed what makes X-Files so great perfectly in your review.

Haven't finished the second because I intend to watch Babylon5 and Blake's 7 at some point and want to avoid spoilers.

There's quite a bit of discussion in this about things that are/are not science fiction (for example Newsarama prompting you to consider The Prisoner allowable). The Avengers is on the list, but you said Life on Mars was ineligible. So I'd be really interested in how you'd address this explicitly: what is science fiction?

Eugene

If you like, I'll time out the episode and let you know where to avoid B7 and B5 discussion.

Did I explicitly say Life on Mars was ineligible? I might have, but don't remember it. I'll take a shot at why I would probably eliminate it. Life on Mars happens (depending on how you wish to remember the show) either in the coma-locked mind of an injured man or purgatory. There is no actual time travel in the program, there's no projection of scientifical romance. It's pure fantasy.

Now, I completely would agree that Doctor Who is completely fantasy, too, but it has the trappings of space and time travel by means of advanced technology. X-Files has the alien encounter aspect. The Prisoner could be argued to be like Brave New World. Look at what our technology and progress has brought! And, the village was a model of super-hi-tech convenience. It's easy to forget that when looking at it from our modern world. The Avengers frequently fought things like robots or other mad scientists... borderline SciFi to be sure.

So, how would I explicitly define SciFi? That's tough. I'll take some short cuts: Meaningful space travel. We don't have that, it's technological, that's SciFi. Likewise, aliens from another world. Robots and fanciful projections on what we might be able to build or do in the future. I lump steampunk into SciFi, but I wonder if it really should count.

Beyond that... I know it when I see it. Maybe.

MrSimonWood

Yes, if I can jump past the spoilers, that'll save me waiting another 5-10 years to listen to it (it'll take me that long to get round to B7 + B5!)

Interesting definition. Now - SPOILERS FOR LIFE ON MARS/ASHES TO ASHES - until we knew the ending, we couldn't have ruled out that Life on Mars was not time travel, so would it have counted as scifi until then? Or at least been in a quantum super-position of scifi and non-scifi? And fanciful projections on the future... happens a lot in James Bond (e.g. the underwater breathing apparatus in Thunderball). How central to the show does it need to be to count as sic-fi (because for example for Quantum Leap and much Doctor Who the sci-fi stuff is just the back drop)...

So...

- Space travel

- Alien extraterrestrials

- Future tech

Primeval has none of these. Not scifi? I'd have said it was, but I'm increasingly aware that scifi often bleeds into fantasy and I've never been too careful about making a distinction. I mean, clearly something like Being Human is fantasy, but it must have a huge crossover appeal with the Torchwood/Doctor Who fan base, which in turn must likewise attract some of the hard scifi fans... Difficult to draw a line, I'd have thought.

Eugene

Well, what I meant was that some things are easy to put on one side of the line or other. Things like space travel make the line easy. Others are more difficult.

Primeval... time travel=science fiction. Is it natural or man made? I can't answer that without spoilering it.

Eugene

OK, if you wish to avoid spoilers on B5 and B7, just skip from 16:25 start to 36:50 end. The discussions of both are back-to-back.

MrSimonWood

Thanks!

MrSimonWood

Thanks, listened to the end now. No doubt you're expecting violent disagreement now regarding The Avengers but I'd find it very hard to take issue with almost everything you say. Honor Blackman is wonderful but there is something incredible about Diana Rigg as Mrs Peel.

Actually I'm not sure it never ventured into the absurd. I think it was quite comfortable with it. But only rarely did that detract from the appeal.

MrSimonWood

Okay, here goes. After much musing, I'm going to post my top 10, even though I'm clearly going to get lynched when you read it. Nice knowing you, guys...

10. Battlestar Galactica (Reboot)

9. The Prisoner

8. Futurama

7. The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

6. Ultraviolet

5. Red Dwarf

4. Sapphire and Steel

3. The X-Files

2. Doctor Who

1. Torchwood: Children of Earth

Caveats: I just can't bring myself to class The Avengers as science fiction, but obviously it would've made the list if I had. I haven't seen some supposed classics (Blakes 7, Babylon 5, Firefly) so they're not on here. Most of the shows I've included I've seen the whole run (or much of it, in the case of Doctor Who and Futurama). But I've seen very little of The Prisoner, making it hard for me to judge, which is why it is low down. If the episodes I've seen are anything to go by, it deserves a higher place, and I'm looking forward to seeing it all. Similarly, what I've seen of Space 1999 suggests it deserves a place on the list.

Obviously The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy would be further up if we were allowed to include radio, but I'm assuming we're limited to television here, and the TV show was a pale imitation.

Eugene

Much has been said about that Galactica thing, so I'll just leave it; however, I think the rest of your list is mostly uncontroversial.

I know that you had not had exposure to Sapphire & Steel before the podcast, and it pleases me no end to see it here on your list. However small it is, I feel like Ben and I have accomplished something with the podcast.

It's undeniable that Children of Earth was some of the most powerful television I've ever seen, but I wouldn't have considered it because (A) Torchwood is largely abysmal and (B) Children of Earth is just one "story" in the greater (or lesser) whole of Torchwood. I feel like it would have been saying "Doctor Who - Inferno" would qualify.

So that's not me saying that's a bad choice, just me saying it wouldn't have occurred to me to include it. It certainly was compelling.

MrSimonWood

Reply to @Eugene: Truth is, I'm not that keen on Galactica. I was hoping to find a better 10th choice, and I got stuck. I would have gone for Dirk Gently or The Quatermass Experiment (2005) but I thought one-offs were not fair. I liked BSG enough to watch it all the way through. I won't watch it again.

I'm hugely grateful to you and Ben for introducing me to Sapphire & Steel. Thank you. I'm so pleased to have watched it.

The truth is, you opened the door to my picking Children of Earth by putting series 1 only of Space 1999 on your list. It wouldn't have occurred to me otherwise! And I didn't do it elsewhere (I'd have said The X-Files series 1 - 7 and Red Dwarf series 1 - Red Dwarf VI if I could've). I'm not quite sure whether including these extra duff seasons should actually pull these shows down the rankings - if it did, Torchwood would obviously drop several places, since there are roughly as many poor or terrible episodes as there are good or excellent. It's an extreme example of this. We can't judge shows on their one best episode - what if it's an outlier? - but can we judge them on a series or more, if they're consistently good for that long? Anyway, in justification of my choice, Children of Earth genuinely stands alone in its own right as a mini-series. You don't need to have seen the series prior to it, and the end has the feeling of concluding the show, it's that self-contained.

MrSimonWood

Reply to @Eugene: So, the Galactica thing has been resolved by you guys prompting me to watch Firefly. It's awesome. Over too soon, of course, and having just finished watching it I'm not totally sold on the movie Serenity, but what a great series.

I did feel there were some similarities to Galactica but one immediate and obvious thing - from almost the start of the feature length opener - was that every character (including the unlikeable ones) was likeable. Superb, engaging writing.

And proof, I think, that if you include a mysterious character-with-a-secret called River you are guaranteed a compelling and unmissable story arc ;-)

Emme46

Here goes my list. I love watching sci fi shows I am a die hard fan of them, my list is quite a bit long.

The Outer Limits

Battlestar Galactica

Futurama

Mystery Science Theater 3000

Red Dwarf

Star Trek: The Next Generation

Inception

The Matrix

District 9

2001: A Space Odyssey

V for Vendetta

Also I like all Trek shows, Babylon 5, and Battlestar Galactica original series.
X-Files rocked. I liked the first movie; the follow-up movie was a little disappointing. I had hoped after 10 years it would do well, but they waited too long to get on the ball with another X-Files movie.

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